Unbreakable with Thom Shea, Retired Navy Seal, Author and Trainer at Unbreakable Leadership

Cindra: Tom. Thank you so much for joining us here on High-Performance mindset podcast today. I’m really looking forward to talking to you. How is your week going?

Thom: Week is wonderful. And thank you so much for letting me come into your space and we’ll drive each other crazy for about an hour. So thank you for that.

Cindra: That sounds good to me anytime I can talk about mindset and just I think your experience is so unique. I absolutely love your books, I read Unbreakable again last night and I read it a while ago. So it was really fun to look at it again and I love the lessons you provided just actually the how you came to write the book that it was really for your kids Is that correct?

Thom: Yeah, I saw, I was in Afghanistan in 2009 as a seal platoon chief and in more. So at that point, I was at the edge of my career and had the honor to lead men in combat and before I went out the door. We knew is going to be rough like our chances of not getting injured were zero literally and so, Stacy, my wife said, hey, I would like you to write down before you go out on every mission. Something you want us to know about you that the kids can do in case you die, and that was literally the task. And I’m like, oh my god, honey don’t make it so serious. She goes, honey, we know what you do. And so in six months. I had come up with 13 lessons I wanted the kids to know and but then I survived so t sat on the shelf for five years.

Cindra: Yeah. Well, and I think that’s what made the book really powerful is because it was written for those that you love and for that purpose. So, Thom, maybe just kind of as we get started, or talk more about some of your lessons and your new book, but tell us a bit about what you’re passionate about right now and just what you’ve been up to since you retired?

Thom: I think I’ve been up to it before retirement. So what’s really a value to me is what I call the human equation like humans make shit. Good. Or they make it bad. And that is a great phenomenon and I’d learned that in the seal teams is that the seal teams are only concerned with each other. They don’t care about weapons they don’t care about situations, they don’t care about the weather. How do you and I as a as a team get through hell. And so I’m really interested in the human side of everything, how humans deal with everything.

Cindra: And listen a little bit about just what it’s like to go through SEAL training. I was reading this really cool research study recently about those who actually become navy seals and those that don’t and one of their biggest factors was their perception of stress when they saw stresses like performance enhancing they did better. And they are more likely to become a seal versus those that were not inside is like a threat. So I’d love to hear about just, you know, get paints a picture what that’s like. And the mental toughness, it takes to even become a navy seal?

Thom: I was more interested in what you were reading there.

Cindra: I can find the citation if you’d like. It’s really it was really fascinating is all like her perception of stress.

Thom: Yeah, there’s so since World War Two. When the precursor to seals started training and that training was much shorter than it was only three weeks. The first week was a condition called hell week. So then everybody looks at SEAL training is that week 1, that dominant one week period of time to actually not, but what happens there is what everybody thinks is cool and hell we begins at on Sunday right after dark and goes to Friday and you don’t get sleep as a student, you don’t get sleep as a staff member you give them three hours spread out. So they’ll get five minutes. Good. I get to tick off. They got five minutes, but as an as an instructor, you have to account for three hours of sleep. The students have no idea they were supposed to sleep so they don’t get sleep. So what happens there as a student, it’s different than as an instructor like you and I will observe it and go, Okay, this is what’s going on and with your expertise, you’d be okay, their amygdala is going off or it’s not going off and blah, blah, blah. So as a student, there’s no way to win. They don’t ever let you do well ever so there’s very few people in the world can handle that level of attention or not attention so you never can feel good about anything that you do, especially, you know, in today’s society less. So when I went through, because nobody gave a shit, then they’re worried about everything now. And so, setting the case. What happens in hell week, you have to get through that to be a seal and the only way to get through that is to what the what you were talking about how you deal with stress how you perceive everything that’s going on around you and they weed people out systematically. The first way to weed somebody out is to give them something that they can’t figure out. So the first part of hell week is you can’t figure this out, put sand in your mouth and sing a song. What, like your brain goes hey, you can’t sing go hit the Go get go get in the water. So that was stupid. Now I get getting punished for stupidity and people quit because most humans want to have clarity and then they want to be able to get feedback. So what happens if you never have anything clear and your feedbacks always punishment. So you weed out those people who can’t deal with that level of stress. And then the second part of hell week which I put into training for for corporations and clients this differently but describing what happens in hell week is non winnable situation they put you in the cold water, they call it surf torture. Surf tortured surf torture. They just put you in the water and it’s nighttime they turn the lights off of the trucks and nobody talks to you and you’re looking out to see and, you know, everybody like hey I love San Diego. It’s nice and the beaches are cool. No, it’s not the waters freezing cold and the sand gets in every orifice that you have, you know, and so they, they, the deal is to put people into I can’t fight this I have to just sit here and I can’t beat it and I’m getting colder and I’m getting really cold and so they put sometimes it’s five hours long. When it’s really cold, it’s only an hour and a half. So they put people in for three different passes the first pass is to get them cold and you bring them out of the water and nobody usually quits in the first pass because they think, hey, I can do this and then did turn around, go back in the water and you’re like, here’s the deal as a staff member you make it stressful.We’re going to do this until half the class quits.

Cindra: Oh my goodness.

Thom: And you’re like, Whoa, what are you talking about, and you know the instructors. If they say something, they’re going to do it. So you’re sitting there in the water going I can’t make this I could be here all day and the first person to quit is who the toughest dude always quits always because he can always when he’s always wanted everything yes, but when he quits is a mass exodus like 20 guys will quit with him. Then after that mass exodus you pull them out of the water again and you know all the women love this part of this story is you make them take their clothes off and they go back in. So take everything off. As if it mattered. You’re submerged in cold water really doesn’t matter. Right. So you take everything off. And it’s that last mental layer of safety and protection that you have and you go back in the water and it gets cold like you can’t talk. You can’t close your fist. You can’t stand up your eyes don’t want to focus forward and then they pull you out of the water and they make you run for miles in less than 30 minutes or you’re out of training. You can’t even stand up and people because that’s a lot of stress. If I don’t, man, I can’t do I can’t even think about running.

Cindra: Right.

Thom: And how those kids process stress if they can’t process just get to it. Who cares. Just try they quit. So it’s just a weeding process of who can’t deal with this who can’t deal with everything we’re giving them, but it’s all mental

Cindra: Yeah, and I hear that and I’m thinking about just you know why this is important. And I think, you know, it’s like, in your opinion, how does that prepare them then to go to war and whatever they might experience there?

Thom: Simple that what the only way that you get through hell week is take another step. Don’t worry about anything anymore don’t look at yourself and evaluate yourself because when you look down your knees are swollen. If you look in the mirror, you look like you know, a swollen face, your eyes are terrible your nose is broken your fingers are, you know, don’t have any fingernails left. So don’t evaluate anything. Just keep going take one more step, take one more step. Don’t look too far ahead that’s what is the only thing that happens in combat, that is of relevance to the business world or every human being is, don’t give up. Just keep doing something if you lay there you’re going to die in business. If you stop, you’re going to die in relationship if you stop. It’s over. So just keep moving the needle. As much as you can. In the next step and that’s what makes you seals different than every other military forces. The only thing that they have that’s common is they’re going to not quit, no matter what.

Thom: Yeah, that’s a very powerful thing to have.

Cindra: It isn’t. And you know, I also think like that’s something that we can train and I’m curious about, just as you became a seal, but also now you know as you taught within the program. Tell us about a little bit more about what kind of mental toughness training there is within the program to become a Navy SEAL because I think people are interested in that, like, how did they train for anything that could happen and how can I train my mind?

Thom: Similarly, within the seal teams, there’s every, every program director from any civilian, you know, big week thing comes and tries to test something on the seal teams like they’re a guinea pig like brand Corporation. Was there a bunch of times like we were test vehicles for everything and never work. Like, you know, the positive mental attitude sure that that works until your negative

Cindra: Right.

Thom: Your positive interior now, but I still have to operate whether I’m positive or negative. So what they do in the seal teams that is a pull from all the different mindset curriculum and years and years and years of combat experience passed down by the men who were there is in training never let yourself when never let yourself while you’re practicing have a victory.

Thom: Oh my god in business, they cannot do. Well, you have to have positive feedback. No, you don’t. You have to push until the things break to figure out what you’re not good at. So in the seal program it’s constant exposure to all your weaknesses that you get better at and that is, anybody can do that. It’s just emotionally difficult and so that’s one of the primary factors that I pulled forward into the civilian world is we’re going to talk about emotion and we’re going to talk about it quickly because you can’t get off the ground. If the emotional responses that you have as a man or a woman predetermine your outcome because in combat. I don’t want to do it. I didn’t want to fight. I didn’t want to die, but you went anyway. And you guys were scared right so what, who cares.

Cindra: Keep moving right anyway. Yeah.
Thom: Get better at your craft, whatever that craft is

Cindra: I think about this phrase like, you know, even though I’m feeling a certain way, doesn’t mean that I can. I need to act that way. Right. This idea that I can act independent of how I feel. So I think that’s kind of really what you’re saying is you know, I don’t feel very confident that I can act it or I’m feeling overwhelmed with fear, but I, I don’t need to act that way.

Thom: Yeah, so an added bonus, I’m glad you asked the head emotions are tools. Yeah, but nobody learned that they’re actually tool sets like every, every emotion that we experience, literally, and I had to go talk to experts like you to figure this out every emotion has a predetermined outcome if you are reacting with fear you hormonally shut down your heart rate shuts down or gets to your blood pressure gets crazy. If your responses fear you will get stuck like it’s a mobilizing emotion fear actually doesn’t cause you to run faster, cause you to go slower. Happiness is everybody wants to feel happy. But happiness applied at the wrong time is very inadequate happy with a situation causes you not to want a better it so hey, feel happy with your day. Don’t feel happy with your day while you’re doing it because you won’t better your day. Happiness is during celebration, like, Hey, let’s sit and drink a beer together and go, Man, I’m really happy with what you did. And then you can’t. So that’s a weird thing I’ve had to negate happiness and business leaders don’t always be happy because people will drive

anywhere they want as a company rise. Another thing that’s hard to understand is anger. Anger is bad. Know the first part of anger is wonderful anger will produce action immediately get pissed. Watch will happen but anger over time causes rage. Yes, you don’t want rage because uncontrollable but anger extended over time causes you to break the thing that you’re angry with happiness causes no momentum fear causes no action. So if you, I had to begin to flesh out and teach everybody how every emotion is used in supposed to be used. And when you teach leaders how emotions are used their lethal

Cindra: I could imagine.
Thom: It’s a wonderful process but I get a lot of emotional outbursts like crying and carry on.

Cindra: Well, and I’m also thinking about right like as when you’re in war. How do you teach yourself or what tools do you use so that. Okay, I know that fear makes me slower and so I’m going to, you know, I want to feel less of that right now. Tell us a bit about that process of how did you teach yourself?

Thom: You everything you do in the seal teams is guided so you have a very accomplished, like literally master not masters triple PhD level warriors teaching you. And so in the they know they’re going to put it put something together. So what they’re gonna do is they’re going to get you into scenario that’s going to fall apart. They know the emotional responses that are going to come up then angry at your men locked up in fear. So one of the you’ll have key instructors following key people that they want to teach something to. So now this key leader falls apart and the instructor will go. All right. Slow down. Take a look around. Remember what you’re committed to. Now, what do you see I see two guys possibly dead over there and the enemies in the building. Okay, so your brain down a little bit. Don’t worry about your wife right now.

Cindra: Right.

Thom: You don’t. I mean, don’t worry about those yeah, they have to teach you that. Because unless you’re taught that you just start spinning out and then you can’t function. So you have a lot of guided leadership at the moment of breakdown that is so crucial and those guys have been there. They wanted to quit, they’ve been in hell before and they want to be there to teach and pass on to all the other operators. Those lethal shooting is the least important thing to do. It’s how you interact with yourself and your environment that makes you what I call an operator seal is that the seal is very focused and the bullets, don’t bother the seal, because now I know where the guy shot from he’s dead, you know, but it takes us, it probably takes four years of constant training to be competent.

Cindra: I could see that those scenarios are so powerful time and it makes me think about. There’s a section in your book that I want to read for those listeners and I’m thinking about how this relates to exactly what you said. And you said you can control fear if you can control the words in your thoughts, your internal dialogue, what you tell yourself every conscious

moment is the power or the source of power when properly controlled, but it’s also the source of weakness. If you lose control.

Cindra: Tell us about like how you see the power of your thoughts and you know how you have worked to change those over time?

Thom: I had it actually taught to me a lot and language powerful language has structure and in the in the you know, in war. You gotta be careful and as a leader you got to be careful. So I’m just prefacing it so I can let her but understand what I’m about ready to say okay, the structure of powerful language. You’re not even hurt you don’t even hear it in school.

Thom: Be very careful not what you think about, but what you say. If you ever use the word the being verbs. I am, is, our, b are our being verbs. If you use them in a sentence, they make sure that they find the world they become real. If I say I am broken. If I say I am done. I cannot be convinced. Otherwise, if I’m in a marriage and I say I am out. I can’t come back as long as I say that I cannot come back in war. The moment you acknowledge that you’re done.

Cindra: Yeah.

Thom: You’re done. But if you don’t acknowledge it. You find avenues to succeed, okay, and athletics.

Cindra: Yes.

Thom: The one who says, I’m the best will find a way to be the best, the one who questions. It may do well. But the one who says, You know, I’m not really good at this. I am not what comes out of their mouth, they will find a way to prove that they’re not going to win.And when you begin to consciously look at the words that you use on a daily basis and look at when you use the being verbs. It scares you.

Cindra: And that’s something
Thom: Like, oh my God, I just destroyed it right there.

Cindra: I was also thinking, Tom. I was recently talking with a pro basketball player, we’re talking about LeBron James and how LeBron James has a tattoo on his back. This is chosen one. And he put it on his back, because he was named the chosen one, when he was in high school by Sports Illustrated like he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated and I had this aha moment when we were I was talking with him. And I’m like, well, that’s why he acts like the chosen one, because he believes he’s the chosen one. Right. And I think that’s exactly what you’re saying if you acknowledge it. You know, then you become it. And so, in your opinion, like I’m thinking about in a war right do you mean by like if they say it out loud, and they’re done. But if we say, say it out loud, they are done.

Cindra: Sorry, say that one more time, Tom.

Thom: If they say it internally like under their voice. They’re also done and you’re the Muhammad Ali phenomenon. My in the best. I went and interviewed the runner. The sprinter Usain Bolt coach other than learning that if you want to be a good runner, you actually got to practice like crazy. It’s not never a gift and but his coaches, I only work on him mentally
Thom: Because he gets down on himself. Oh, my back hurts, all the time. He’s constantly spinning out of, hey, this isn’t gonna work. I’m not a good runner anymore. I’m too old. And so his coaches, like, hey, you are the fastest runner in the world. I’m going to hear you say it and getting to say it. And then, but that’s it’s a human phenomenon that changes everything about you. It’s neither right or wrong, but when you begin to look at on a daily basis, how many times you use the the being verbs and how detrimental. That is and what would it be like to say you know i oddly I’m in love with my wife or you just say it in the middle of an argument. Watch what happens. But you can’t. So humans acknowledge their experience and can’t transform it with language, but we have the ability to do that. I’m going to make it through this and there’s 1000 people trying to kill me. That’s the only way to do it.

Cindra: Right.

Thom: We’re out numbers and we’re gonna die. Yep, you are.

Cindra: Yeah, well, and I also think like you’re acknowledging the facts of the situation as well. Right. You’re not ignoring things that might be happening. But you’re talking to yourself in a lot more powerful way. I like the idea of the being verbs and just paying attention now use those.

Thom: Yet no thrill no excitement very boring. They’re not exciting to say it’s not sexy. It’s fact is, this is, it’s cold outside. My God, I can do something with that it is cold. Okay, I can put on something, it’s 100 miles. Okay, I can run one mile. I just got to do it 100 times so acknowledged. It’s the only way to acknowledge fact is the being verbs.

Cindra: Excellent. So, Tom, one of the things I want to ask you about is some of the lessons in your book unbreakable. And I think each of those lessons are just powerful in itself. And I could read a few of them for people who aren’t familiar with the book but need to go get it.
Cindra: Is the first one is keeping your word facing your fear pushing beyond your comfort zone, a few others are living in the moment your contribution to others for them. Tell us a little bit about which of these are your favorite and which of these would you like to kind of dive into a little bit more for those that are listening?

Thom: They’re actually linear. My favorite one, even though it’s the most difficult ones are less than one and less than three honor your word. It’s the hardest for humans to do, but it’s the most important oddly, nobody can do it. I’ve trained 480 people in seven years through a long eight iteration process and that’s the hardest one make a promise and keep it for 21 days. So that’s the lesson. It’s a three-week assignment. Do simple shit. And it’s simple, but I can’t get anybody to do it because people don’t honor their word. They are not living in a space called I

Am. My word. If I make a promise that defines me it could be anything I’ve made it somewhat simple 10 push-ups 10 setups 10 squats every morning right after you get out of bed and right before you go to bed for 21 days, very difficult.

Cindra: So what do you think it’s in the people in people’s way of, you know, just like committing to what the same thing?

Thom: Excuses. So what happens is we have social media and life has created a condition called you’re excused from being great week we live our excuses. Hey, I can’t do that. It hurts my wife doesn’t support me the biggest excuse that kills success. It sounds like this and everybody’s brain and it happens. Towards the end of success like in the fourth quarter of a game, and especially in the 21 day assignment. It only happens in the last week. Is it sounds like this. And everybody said this is stupid. This is stupid. This stupid. I have to do this anymore.

Thom: I’ve done it first. It’s stupid. It’s not that it hurts. It’s just stupid. It’s stupid to get up in the morning and then do push ups sit ups and squats and right before I go to bed. This is stupid. It’s also stupid to tell your wife you love her they use it the same excuse when things get rough is the excuse called This is stupid. And those are the four primary excuses are burned out of seals, they don’t let anybody ever said they don’t give up. They don’t give a shit if you’re in pain. This hurts. I don’t care. Yeah. So you said you would do this. I don’t care if you blow your feed off, you better make it. The second one that’s burned out is support. Okay, so your team’s not supportive, your, your leader doesn’t support you, your family doesn’t support you. So what? Do it anyway. The third one is this is stupid.

Cindra: Okay.

Thom: And the, the final one, the fourth of the primary excuses that literally prevents everybody from being successful and you’re gonna laugh. I forgot. I forgot. Oh my god. People use that all the time. It’s like, Oh, dude, I forgot to do this podcast I forgot to write the check. I forgot to check this. I forgot to call bill. Millions are lost because of that excuse you forgot. Get some health in have a reminder, get your phone to do it. Get 15 people to remind you to do things that are valuable, but we’ve allowed that to be a predicate to our success we’ve allowed excuses to prove prevail everywhere.

Cindra: Well, I think just naming those as, like, five, five or four primary excuses. Tom like also helps us recognize when we’re using them. And when we’re kind of Sabotaging our own success. So this hurts. II don’t have support, this is stupid, I forgot. What would you tell people who are listening who might be saying to themselves. Yeah I you know that I use that excuse a lot if it’s I heard you know the service or I don’t have the support or this is stupid or I forgot. What you do with that?

Thom: Each one is coach differently. So if pain is always there for you you need somebody to help you.You’re not able to do so if you’re an athlete, you have to have a coach emotional pain is still pain. So if you’re having some interpretation that this hurts. This conversation with my wife hurts or my kids go get support so pain requires coaching or support or physical therapist.

So the I forgot excuse requires accountability. So if you use the excuse a lot you’re somebody who doesn’t allow people to help them like you don’t have a team that accounts for each other’s actions. The this is stupid. The only way to deal with this a stupid is don’t listen to it, but it’s so seductive. Like I was out that God, my God, I’m too tired for this. I don’t really need to do it this is this is dumb. Why am I doing this. That’s entirely up to you. You got to get over that hurdle. And then the other one was-

Cindra: I don’t have support.

Thom: So if you use this if you feel like your interpretation is that you don’t have support. There’s two alternatives. One is get rid of everybody and get people who support you or either way to Reengage Your people who don’t support you like your wife or your husband or your lover or your boss. Yeah. Be very clear that you require their support and come to find out the most important one is the one at home. If you don’t have 100% committed spouse you’re stuck. You are stuck.

Cindra: Yeah, I can see that well I really appreciate that going through each of these for excuses and then how to address them. I’m thinking about some of the people I work with me, you know, say those excuses, either to me or in their mind and just like how to combat them.
So that was about less than one, keeping your word. Tell us a little bit about less than three pushing beyond your comfort zone and the way I think about that is, you know, the only way that you continue to grow is if you push has to be your comfort zone. But, you know, our brain wants to keep us safe. It doesn’t want to help us choose courage or to grow and change. So tell us a bit about how you’ve learned to push past your comfort zone over the years?

Thom: So, first, there’s probably a million stories, but the one I wanted to relate to the kids that’s in the book is before you know some point in time in your life, you have to do something all day. Be that three-percentile person that can stay awake for a day doing something important. So we did in the book. And what we do as a business now is we hold these 24-hour leadership events and I kind of regret putting it in the book because we’ve done 33 of them now. Okay, and but here’s the deal for a day for 24 hours you’re going to walk and you’re going to deal with your demons. You have to deal with them. You can’t get to the end quicker than a day. You just have to walk your feet are going to hurt. You’re going to not enjoy the process, you’re going to get nauseated at night, you’re going to get scared and as we began to put these events together and guide people through that. The question that we start out with that we resolve at three o’clock in the morning. We start at nine on Saturday, and then three o’clock Sunday morning. This question gets resolved. Why are you not the best version of yourself? And it’s a scary question you imagine going around 50 other people. And somebody asked that question. Do you be like, dude, I don’t know any of these people. I’m not going to share any of this. Yeah, it happens is so profound now in the first two hours. Everybody comes. This is what is stopping me my life and they come up with all these things, these stories and all this stuff that at three o’clock in the morning, they become quiet. And the only thing that matters is I’m going to make it to the next tree and that level of resolve. It’s fun to see people’s eyes and their demeanor is they’re like, you know what I was going to get divorced. I was going to quit my job.

I have cancer, whatever that all that goes away and they’re just going to that next tree and they then go, Man, this would have been a lot easier in life, had I learned this as a kid. I’m like, I agree. It’s a lot easier in life to not have all that story that prevents you from being the best version of yourself. And now what’s funny is half the people that come bring their wife or husband, the second time and that that’s a big returning event now.

Cindra: So tell us a bit about how do you see people grow in those kind of 24 hour event. So, do they grow in their like self-awareness or do you think it’s just their understanding of themselves, their ability to push beyond the obstacles. What do you see?

Thom: Well, the thing that prevents everybody from pushing beyond stuff. One is excuses. So we talked about that. We talked about the storyline that you have in your life like what’s the story of your life. By the way, it ain’t helpful. Most people’s stories suck and their story about it is so debilitating. So change your story.

Cindra: Awesome.

Thom: And then as the, you know, as you get, you know, emotionally exhausted and physically exhausted and then hormonally you know, the, the testosterone is dying off and the estrogens dying off at like three o’clock in the morning and people are everything’s on the sleeve. So why are you not the best version of yourself at three o’clock in the morning is what’s the answer me. Either reason you and you can do anything you can’t anything you want to do. Why don’t you do it. And they’re like, you know what, oh my god, I don’t know why I don’t do that or. That’s what we’re here to help. Why don’t you just commit to doing that, we had a couple that was on their fourth time. Well, and I can’t remember what predicated this conversation. But at the end of it, as I was listening to them. They’ve been married 20 years. I said, and you probably know that every seven years nerd neurological your new human being. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that.

Cindra: I have not heard that.

Thom: Seven years is when your neurons change like they’ll grow around a problem. And so, neurologically and brain centered wise the brain cells replenish every seven years. I said, you know what would be awesome. Instead of thinking that you have been married for so long. Why don’t you guys get remarried. And see in their eyes go oh my gosh, we could get remarried. We don’t have to have the baggage of the 20 plus years of stuff that we have, we could get remarried and as they started talking. I’m looking at the looking at everybody was there and all the women were like oh my god cry. But to see that transformative event happen where people get very basic, very simple.

Cindra: Powerful so I’m sure you can find information about those events at unbreakable leadership calm right. Do you have any coming up soon?

Thom: Yeah, we have a leadership summit in January. And then we have what I call level one and level two beginning in have an event. We have training in Texas and training here in

Greenville and the level one events are weekend long and they’re very profound and we’ve now limited it to 50 people because there’s only two of us that teach it, and I want everybody to get all the attention that they get we could go to 100 but it gets lost. Like yeah so it’s a like half-filled in both places now and we limited because we want the people that are committed to being the best version of themselves to show up and get the training so level one training is about self-awareness and level two training is about designing a team. And they’re separated by six weeks because the homework in the in between trainings is so freaking hard that I’m not gonna let you get a team until you can actually see the work involved in your life and your wife or husband has to call me and say this shit works all the way. Otherwise, it doesn’t work in your opinion doesn’t matter and you have to hit four different goals in six weeks. And if you don’t hit them, then you can’t do the level to training.

Cindra: So a lot of accountability in that. That’s what I’m hearing.

Thom: Got a terrible amount accountability and I, you know, ditch it. The only way to accomplish anything is to have the people that are they’re committed to what you’re committed to every single day. There’s accountability. And it ends up driving people crazy. They’re like, man, I did you committed to it. Let’s do something that you want to do, not what I want to do, let’s do something that you’re wild about I don’t care if it’s underwater welding in a bikini. I don’t care what it is. As long as you’re going to put your effort into it and avert only you what I call to X your life. Whatever you’re capable of doing in 90 days both programs together, you will accomplish two times more especially in business because business is where everybody’s very lethargic.

Cindra: Yes. Cool. Well, thanks for describing those events and just a little bit more about how you run those and the outcome. So one of the things I wanted to make sure I asked you, Tom is about your new book three simple things and you can just kind of maybe describe us to us a little bit about what the book is but you know, I was thinking about this question related to the book and I think right now there’s so much change and uncertainty with Kobe. And in the last, you know, eight months or so. Why do you think this book is really important. Now, seven of us seals, who are retired or sitting around a table two years ago and the lot of our brothers and sisters in the military are committed suicide. Not to draw on anybody’s emotion, but I was not privy to it because I was working and I’m like, oh my god. What would you be if you died John. What would be left? And so the question was if you died tomorrow, what would you have not expressed or done that you’ve always wanted to do so when it came around me. I’m like, man, I’ve created this awesome training and but it’s secret sauce, man. Don’t make me expose that Thom: And one of them. It’s like, hey, if you die, it dies, it dies with you. I’m like, so the, the book three simple things is the method and process that my partners and I have created to train people to be literally the best version of themselves and what, why is it important now. Here’s the deal. And this crisis is just because people are spinning out of control.

Cindra: Yeah.

Thom: The facts behind it are less scary than the rhetoric and that’s a lot of what I learned in combat. There’s always crisis. Thousand cost was a, maybe it’s 1990 a million people were killed and Chad, which is a North African state. Okay, nobody cared because there was no rhetoric behind it. Yeah, so there’s always death, there’s always misery crisis, there’s people doing bad things all over the world all the time. It’s just now with social media, it seems, new my god there’s a virus out. Okay. The flu factually is more deadly but we now are believers like we used to being verbs who are going to die. We are going to die. This is the worst thing in the world. And we’re believers. So what I know to be true, is what I put in the book is not negotiable live a non-negotiable life. So don’t let the environment convince you to drop yourself. And having trained so many people to not negotiate with themselves like be healthy every day. So the three simple things categorically are there five categories, but you do three simple things per five categories you every day. You can’t negotiate. It doesn’t matter. Remember, doesn’t matter how you feel. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have support get support, so do these things that are important for us a human being spiritual time is needed relational time is needed athletic physical time is needed, obviously value or business time is needed and learning those five categories spelled out, which I think pretty well because I had somebody help me write this one this time and you know how to be the best version of yourself and literally stop excusing yourself from being that version and you’re like, your gift, your gift to people so be it. Don’t be this miserable cowering in the corner person worrying about a virus that you have to get this virus. Everybody has to get by the way. You have to.

Cindra: Thom. Thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom today. I think when I look back at the things that I really enjoyed most from just listening to you and first of all, I didn’t realize it was called the training for the 24 hours surf torture. So, so that I read about it, but that the title didn’t stick with me. So I think just like describing what happens in Navy SEAL training is really powerful. I loved the four primary excuses and the things to do to address those. I thought that was really powerful and helpful for everybody, this being words and verbs and making sure we’re careful about what we say to ourselves, particularly out loud. Whispering It like you mentioned, and I just really enjoyed hearing more about how you do your training and telling us a little bit about that. So tell us how people can reach out to you by your two books and learn more about the training that you provide?

Thom: Amazon is the best place to buy the books. I think it’s the most organized book selling mechanism now because you don’t have to go to a bookstore, so it’s on Amazon under Unbreakable and Navy SEALS way of life and Three Simple Things, leading during chaos on Amazon. We’re very active on Facebook under Tom Shay, and on Instagram. I think under Tom shade. I don’t know how they run that and love it. Come to the 24 hour. It Doesn’t matter if you’re ready.

Cindra: It sounds like a good time, I’d love to see you there.

Thom: Please come. You will learn something about yourself that will translate to everybody you interact with

Cindra: I could imagine. I’ll talk to my husband about it tonight.

Thom: And he can come too.

Cindra: Yeah, I’d probably bring him. Well, Tom. Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and I’m so grateful for what you shared with us today.

Thom: Thank you so much. I appreciate you as well.