Money Mindset with Jane Atkinson, Speaker Coach and Author, The Wealthy Speaker School
Today on the podcast we have Cindra’s own speaker coach, Jane Atkinson! Jane Atkinson has been helping speakers catapult their careers for more than 30 years. She is the author of The Wealthy Speaker 2.0, The Epic Keynote, The Wealthy Speaker Daily Success Planner and Journal, and her latest book, Scaling Your Speaking Business – 10 Strategies for Earning More While Doing Less.
Prior to coaching, Jane worked as an agent for several speakers whose careers skyrocketed. She also served as Vice President of a Speakers Bureau in Dallas where she represented several celebrities, best-selling authors and business experts.
Jane’s Wealthy Speaker School offers online courses, masterminds and private coaching programs for speakers at all levels, helping them position for higher fees and to build the business of their dreams. (Note: NSA National has negotiated a special price for members to Jane’s School).
In this episode, Jane and Cindra discuss:
- Where our beliefs about money come from and how they limit us
- A powerful thought model we can use to examine our limiting belefs
- How she has personally conditioned her mindset about money and her value
- The impact of COVID on our beliefs about money and our potential
- And how you decide the thoughts that you will have about money!
Jane Atkinson: All is well I’m not sure when this podcast is going to air, but so we are just starting to come out of lockdown so we’re behind you work, I was just saying to somebody else we’re ahead of you on mental health but we’re behind you on vaccines. So I think that that’s just an interesting little thing to compare countries but we’re doing doing really well I think we’re on the right side of things, I hope.
Cindra Kamphoff: Well, I that’s great to hear and I’m really excited to talk with you today and things are opening up here and I think this is a really relevant topic to talk about today, as things are opening up and businesses are opening up. The speaking profession is opening up in terms of more live events I just told Jane I was at yesterday I was speaking to 150 healthcare workers and I’m like wow you know people really need positive messages right now.
Jane Atkinson: yeah the resilience conversation for anybody who’s been on the front line of this for a year and a half is so important, so what’s really rising up in my end in our industry of speaking is bouncing back how to work through change leadership resilience, you know all of those topics even mental health keeps coming up again and again and again it’s something that’s so needed right now, so your topic is hot spots and drop.
Cindra Kamphoff: I know, and I that’s what I feel as well, people need really tangible strategies, because we’ve been through a lot and Jane.
Jane Atkinson: yay for the bounce back part I don’t say, for the reason why people need them.
Cindra Kamphoff: Yes for sure for sure, but we have been all in this together and a lot of people have been saying that but it is interesting because no matter you know who you talk to we’ve been through this really you know difficult time, and that we need to bounce back even stronger, and I think today we’re gonna be talking about bouncing back with your business and scaling your business and to get us started Jane just tell us a little bit about how you got into the work of supporting speakers and as a coach is also a bit about your background there.
Jane Atkinson: Well, I started as an agent for professional speakers way back over 30 years ago I was like a representative, so I would book my speaker and I represented three different speakers each you know getting bigger and better, and you know the final speaker that I represented went from zero to a million dollars a year over the course of about four or five years. And so I also had the luxury of spending six years under the roof of a speaker’s bureau in Texas so for four of those years I was managing this speaker who was married to the owner of the Bureau. But I really got an eye opening in terms of what speakers did to approach speakers bureaus and how we booked people and how they got chosen and how people got seen in a pack of in a sea of speakers, and so that was incredibly interesting and then I came back to Canada after 911 and I hung out my shingle as a coach and I learned I got trained by CTI coaches training institute. And it was incredible to kind of learn the foundations of coaching. But really my practice was a combination of coaching and consulting you know we’ve worked together so you know that if you ask me a question I’m going to tell you what I think which is sometimes not exactly what coaches are meant to do they’re meant to help people find their own solutions, and so I have been a combination of a coach and a consultant for now, the past 18 years I’ve had my own company.
Cindra Kamphoff: 18 years, and you know one thing that I love about your work and love about your business you’re just continually scaling it you’re you’re also dreaming big and you’re really thinking about what you can do and the people that you can impact so you’re an incredible role model and I love the content, you provide and just really solid information great books so I see your your businesses the whole package there, and you have recently worked on kind of this money mindset piece, and I think this is so important, one I know for sure, for me, the thing that I’m continuing to build and the thing for my business that I had to really work on at the beginning and, so tell us about your interest in just the mindset piece.
Jane Atkinson: Well, I started to think about what is the difference between speaker a and speaker be speaker a goes out and kicks butt and take names their calendars busy I would put you in the speaker a call and Sandra their calendar is busy. And they are you know kind of fearless in what they’re doing speaker B is constantly second guessing themselves and constantly getting beat up on fees and is struggling is struggling to they kind of live in a world of struggle, and so I was starting to think about well what, if I can help. That second speaker figure it out what, if I could do that deep mindset work on people to really help them, so I had been following Brooke Castillo, she has a company called the LIFE coach school and I had been a part of the school kind of passively, you know as a part of her scholars program and an opportunity came up mid coven to do her coaching program which is really expensive yeah and I talked it over with my husband and you know cheese babe I don’t know if now’s the time to do this it’s really expensive and I don’t know if I shouldn’t be spending the money. And I kind of took my own medicine and I did it and I committed to it and I got certified just a few months ago, and this thought model isn’t, especially for your listeners your listeners who study mindset they know what they’re doing right. it’s not rocket science what we’re talking about it’s a simple thought model that allows people to kind of work through almost any problem, and so I can you know share it with you in whatever capacity that you would like, but for me and my clients it’s been the difference between you know the struggling speaker moving them into the kick butt take names speaker mode because I now know what the differences is mindset.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah so What role do you see that mindset place in building a speaking business, but really you know we’re talking about any business here.
Jane Atkinson: Everything I mean it’s everything I used to think that mindset, or are you thoughts or whatever were you know 50% of the equation now Sandra I believe it’s 100% of the equation. So the bother to drill down on this thought model basically it is your thoughts equal your results your thoughts people your I mean this is not new information thinking grow rich Norman Vincent peel was. Did I say that right. He That was a book that was written a long, long time ago, but it’s bringing the ideas forward and your thoughts equal your results is still true today and so usually if someone hasn’t been getting results. I just talked to a gentleman yesterday, who basically has had his business on pause for 18 months now, and I thought to myself, I didn’t really say this out loud to him whoa did you not see the opportunity. Re obviously thought what I thought 18 months ago Oh, my goodness, my industry is in trouble. All of the speeches are now gone what am I going to do that was my initial thoughts and draw I didn’t know kind of where I started in a stressful situation I didn’t know what. What number I would give myself in terms of resilience, but I actually let’s say resilience is 10 someone who bounces back like that. Is a 10 I started in the beginning of coven at a three. And I worked my way towards an eight over about a two week period, but I didn’t realize that I started at three when all hell breaks loose what do I do I kind of go to a deep dark place for a minute. And then I have to work myself back and so that’s what happened for me at the beginning of coven but, at the two week mark, I was you know kind of back and recognize that people need me now more than ever, and have that man recognize that 18 months ago. Right, he would he would have been fine right he I mean literally that’s the difference between not doing business for 18 months and doing this.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah that’s incredible and I completely agree when people ask me, you know what percentage of performance is mental right and I’m thinking building a business is performance I always say 100% because everything goes through your mind right, and I think you’ve just given some great examples there and you’ve seen people during this time period of the last 18 months like skyrocket their business so.
Jane Atkinson: Our best year ever.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah so obviously it’s possible you know because they were thinking differently, and when you see the people that have really kind of stepped into their confidence and are fearless and a really you know I think at the heart of that Jane is that they’re able to serve the people that are intended to serve and like ultimately live their purpose right, you know, but what, what do you see them thinking about that’s very different than maybe this speaker who stuck.
Jane Atkinson: You kind of nailed it right there when you said service so Meredith Elliot Powell, who you may know, through the National Association that we all belong to Meredith is client of mine, and she saw the fire and I told lots of people this and she put the fire hose on her shoulder and she ran towards it, and she said to her clients how, may I serve. How can I be of service to you, your company is in trouble she wasn’t thinking about how company thing your company your industry is in trouble how, may I be of service and that’s exactly what she did, and I believe 2020 when many, many speakers were having a difficult year she had the best year of her business.
Cindra Kamphoff: As wonderful.
Jane Atkinson: mm hmm that’s the difference and and her mindset was so what it comes down to is kind of like an individual thought, remember, I said to you earlier, my initial thought in coven was Oh, my goodness, my industry has been wiped out. Yes, obviously not a helpful thought that’s something we want to hang on to for very long.
Cindra Kamphoff: And it really wasn’t wiped out, it was just.
Jane Atkinson: It was just all suffering. But I saw in the beginning, when all of the speeches went off of everybody’s calendars. That I thought that I had, and so the circumstance, if I run you through kind of it starts with circumstance, the circumstance with coven. And we kind of treat circumstances as neutral because one person might think one thing about coven and somebody else might think about it completely different, so if we take it and make it neutral, then we recognize how important our thoughts about it are right, you know the old adage it’s not what happens to you it’s what you think about it right. The initial thought was industry, you know devastation and then the feeling was just like June it was so dark and rough. And then, of course, the actions that So it goes circumstance is the top line then thought the thought results in some feelings. The feelings result and actions and then the actions get the result, so if you just write down on your page if you’re not driving CT FA are going down circumstance thoughts feelings actions results, this is not like a totally new model that people haven’t heard in some variation before. But what I love about it is that direct line kind of between thoughts and results show them a minute, so what we call this first one is like the unintentional model. So I think everything is gone to hell in a handbasket is my feeling is doom dread despair let’s say despair, we try to pick one feeling I have a feeling of despair so then I’m taking action from a place of despair, this is the kicker here, and I think this is where it gets into like the nitty gritty of mindset. And I really love it and show what were my results big fat zero knowing come right that’s month one coven so, then something happens and i’m just listening to brooks podcast and she calls the challenge and she says okay we’re going to set. How did she call that an impossible goal but we’re going to make it short term.
Cindra Kamphoff: Okay.
Jane Atkinson: And so I say to myself Okay, I am going to earn $50,000 and I’m going to do it by the end of May $50,000 by May 31 is my impossible goal, and in that moment on thinking, really, really, really impossible, so I go to a more intentional thought and actually Chris West a buddy of mine that you know as well as I do, an amazing video producer slash entrepreneur he really just is an amazing man. We were doing a four week series together, he said Jane people really need us let’s do a four week series together and we called it brand camp.
Cindra Kamphoff: I saw that.
Jane Atkinson: And so week one I’m not even there, I mean I’m there but Chris is running the show because I I’m still back in this old thought by about week two I start to create my new thought and my new thought is now more than ever.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Jane Atkinson: Maybe now more than ever, I still have a big sign up on my wall people need me now more than ever. By week three I’m back by week four we’re having a blast at brand camp and so it’s really interesting to kind of watch that series back it’s like Jane you’re absent in week one but anyway, so I flipped the switch I mean literally it was like a mindset switch flipped for me, not only did I earn my $50,000 in revenue, I did it like in four weeks. I didn’t even extra month. Okay, and that became because I was my own test case.
Cindra Kamphoff: With yes.
Jane Atkinson: artwork and I thought, and that was when it was after that that I decided to go ahead and do the training. In the mindset coaching because I thought, if I could just do that for myself and set these impossible goals imagine how unstoppable everybody else will become.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah that’s wonderful and I love that you gave us a specific example of you, because I think to myself well um you know, and especially a time that you struggled because I couldn’t imagine that Jane would maybe struggle with this.
Jane Atkinson: Deep dark place, I even said to my husband I don’t know if we’re gonna I think we might need to get out from under this House like we might need to sell this House. And we went through probably the darkest 10 days of our relationships so far we’ve been together 15 years and it, because neither of us really wanted to sell our House, but I was in a place of fear. Yeah right a place of fear. And we had other homes and everything, and so I got really, really scared. Anyway, I quickly, I went around taking pictures, for the real estate, you know if we were going to put it on the market. And I went around and everywhere, I mean like always practically crying by the end of my tour i’m like I love this House so much I don’t want to sell this out and so Finally I came to him and I said okay that’s a decision based in fear and I don’t believe in that.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah that’s.
Jane Atkinson: that’s off the table now. Yeah just remember I just had to remember, and so it was it was a little bit of a time I got emotion just talking about it.
Cindra Kamphoff: Well it’s understandable that you’d feel fear you know I think there was so much coming at us, I felt. You know, during that time period, there was a solid week, where I was feeling very similar and had to get myself out of it, I did this really amazing summit kind of because I had this extra time and I was like.
Jane Atkinson: How can I. How can I grow it totally focus your energy in a positive direction um it was brilliant.
Cindra Kamphoff: And I really needed to because I was well, I had a Ted talk that I was getting ready for, and so I launched the summit on the day my Ted talk was supposed to be just to kind of give me something to like really focus my energy on and to feel like I was doing something on purpose, you know. Because it was it was a really difficult time. And so circumstance thought feeling action result, I really appreciate this model because Jane there’s some research about that if you pre plan your thoughts like let’s say before performance, it gives you more confidence, and you have some plan you know when sort of like the automatic negative thoughts start coming in you. Know I’m here for a reason you know I whatever I’m talented I’m confident whatever you need to say in that moment. But what I like about this is your sort of like doing that you’re thinking, and I think I read this in your book scaling your speaking business, which is an incredible book, by the way, and that was when you were outlining the unintentional and then intentional kind of model right I was like Oh, you could use it by thinking about the result and then what’s the thoughts, you need to have and.
Jane Atkinson: yes and yes. Anywhere that’s the beautiful thing is, you can start with the result, my result was that 50 K, and so I thought okay well what thought Do I need to have and generate a feeling of confidence, I knew that I needed to have confidence in the F line, which is the feeling line. So what thought gives me confidence and the thought ended up being. People need me now more than ever, but think about it, like an Olympic athlete who’s doing a ski run. And, and that visualization part is exactly what we’re talking about they’re, starting with the end result them going across the finish line yeah you know and that’s the feeling that they want is like jubilance and they can totally use this thought model and just think about what is the one thought I remember, I did work for an Olympic athlete Vince Pesenti and his thought, while he was going to the Olympics was I’m the fastest speed skier and Canada top 10 in the world. And he had that thought on these little yellow dots which are like anchors he put these little yellow dot like in his wallet on his mirror, you know all over his house where these little yellow dots and that was just an a crane technique to lock in his thought yeah and oh I’m the fastest speed skier in Canada top 10 in the world became his reality because of that thought and then he needed to go on and make an Olympic thought and he ended up missing his. Missing it because he had a little bump and he ended up missing first place by just a very, very small amount of time, but of course at the Olympics, a small amount doesn’t matter you’re either first or you’re not first, and I think that’s an interesting thing to you know we could do a whole episode on winning and not winning. But actually in the end it turned out that Vince did win at the Olympics, because he gave his dad who later passed away the best time of his life so that was a great ending to that story.
Cindra Kamphoff: Well, I love how he put them around like a middle yellow circles as an anchor Ray and then. What and what I think about and how I relate that to you know, maybe some of the things that I talked about a lot is, I think I talked about what you think about yourself, you become. Ray so if you’re thinking that you are going to be a top 10 in the world right, and especially if you’re telling yourself that regularly yeah and then.
Jane Atkinson: Every day I’ll give you another anchor that I just started using are these little like index cards okay. Oh, I have a different color, for I have one for money business goals health goal marriage and family go and then, I have one, hopefully, I can say this on your show fearless pitch goal. My fearless which goal is the one that I read the most, and you know it says things like I play big in my life, I am the best at what I do I help. I help have helped thousands of speakers add zeros to their income like things like that that just make me feel amazing about myself I’m totally telling everybody what my. Like my innermost thoughts here but yeah I mean it, saying that every morning to myself just puts me in place of power, as I sit here coaching chair and then that rolls through and I’m able to give my clients confidence as a result.
Cindra Kamphoff: I have similar thoughts that I have pre planned in the morning, one of them is like the work that I do changes. Millions of people’s lives right um and you know I restate my purpose statement, so I love that and they love that you’re given us really tangible things that we can use. You know that we could actually use to implement like our if it’s our, we need to kind of level up our thoughts about money, and I find that you know the reason that people have. You know, maybe beliefs about money that don’t serve them is maybe things related to what they heard when they were growing up, you know, like money doesn’t grow on trees, or you have to save every penny of what you make. What, what do you see impacting people’s beliefs and thoughts about money.
Jane Atkinson: yeah I think that they need to look at that, like a river that’s been going down the same path through the. You know, through the rocks for years and years and years, and they need to start steering it off into the tributary that they want like what is. Money doesn’t grow on trees, was what I grew up knowing or hearing and what I think I made that mean is that you have to work really hard for money yeah and I didn’t even want to believe that thought later in life, I read the four hour workweek and I thought. Actually, wait a second I don’t want to work hard, yet I do so this is all a part of what we’ve developed in terms of the wealthy speaker lifestyle it’s all about mapping out the LIFE that’s perfect for you. Is no one size fits all in the wealthy speaker lifestyle it’s basically what means the lifestyle of your dreams, to you, and so. It may be that there’s not as many zeros after my bank in my bank account, but that I’m able to go, you know I take every Friday off or in the summertime which I do I. You know, we have a cottage that we worked really hard for and it came to us much sooner than we were really ready financially for it, we already had three other mortgages like wow we were going to get this cottage this is crazy. And being able to sit there, listen to the loons watch, you know just a kayaker go by, or something that’s very serene and That to me is the ultimate wealthy speaker lifestyle. And so I’ve actually made some of my clients a lot wealthier than I personally am and I’m actually still want I’m still going to level up in my in my business I’m not there yet I’m on my way to be there it’s just a matter of time, but I’m taking my time about it I’m not in it I’m not being impatient about it and. I’m kind of excited I think that most of the learning is going to be in the journey.
Cindra Kamphoff: Yes, and that’s also what I think the role of goals are, by the way, it’s like you know, sometimes we set really impossible goals, and I think there it’s all about who we can become in the process, and if you don’t get that specific number well you’ve really grown a lot, and you know, think of all the people that you’ve impacted by having that big lofty goal of building your business.
Jane Atkinson: yeah and when you look back, I have 10 times my business once already so I know I have the ability to do it again it’s just taking what I did already and multiplying it by 10 and not making it mean that I have to work 10 times harder yeah I think back to your question, which is about how we grew up with these limiting beliefs, based on whatever our parents gave us it’s now up to you. Side what your central thought is going to be about money you get to decide what that’s the beauty of this thought model. Your circumstance may be the circumstance let’s say you grew up and you just had like the worst upbringing ever and I do have a client who’s a great example of that she gets to decide today what she makes that mean to her. She is in the driver’s seat in terms of what her thought is about that, and she gets to decide what she now thinks her life is going to look like going forward as we speak, she is on a plane in first class, having got bumped up because of sheer will luck, I guess, and Delta. And she is going, I hope to buy this dream property of hers in Florida, this weekend like that to me just speaks volumes about the work. Because there have been moments, where she was saying to me like Oh, you know, this is really scary I don’t know if I should be doing this and that is her old life talking.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah I just got goosebumps as you’re saying like you get to decide how you think about the circumstances that you can’t control and you get to decide the thoughts that you want to guide you about money and about you mean we could say about yourself about your work, but I want to ask you this powerful question about thoughts about money, so when you see you know your clients who’ve been successful on their terms, right now, whatever success means to them what are some empowering beliefs you think that they’ve adopted about money.
Jane Atkinson: Not there’s got to be something in there about them deserving it. Okay, and if you somehow don’t feel worthy of your income and I’ve done this personally firsthand you may self sabotage. I worked for speaker I think what I believed in my life is that work needed to be a grind needed to be difficult needed to be not fun needed to be a grind that was money doesn’t grow on trees to me, and so I got this first job representing this speaker and it was a grind. Straight Commission basement office three years I doubled her business, year after year, and so people in the industry, started to notice me. So, then, I get recruited out to Vancouver and now I go from a basement office to a corner office I’m beside the big boss, he loves me he’s got 100 employees and his big publishing company. I’m often the last person to leave at night yeah if I get to my six figure income and something in me isn’t lining up, and I think I am not worthy of earning so much money because I’m so used to the struggle right. Yes, it goes straight from the struggle to success, I couldn’t anyway, some people can but I couldn’t. And so what did I do after two years, I imploded that job and I went over and started working like basically from zero with the Olympic athlete. I mean skis speed skiers in Texas are not like a hot commodity and high speeds here in Texas, but I saw the opportunity I saw that he was a good speaker. And I knew that working under the roof of a Bureau would be good for my career, so I slowly get my way back took me three years to get back to the six figure income. And then on from there, but I had to learn that there was a level of worthiness inside of me, and that I had worked hard for the money, but I didn’t quite recognize it my mindset hadn’t caught up to it. Yeah really be able to step into it and funny enough, I had a life coach back in the Dallas days, and this was you know over 20 years ago now and he and I mapped out the exact life that I’m living today, he asked me what do you on my wall I don’t know I mean so he just started. You know, giving me ideas, and so we wrote it all out in the exact life I said I was going to have children in my life well I’ve never had a child, but I have six grand babies now or five one on the way. And so I became a stepmom and a Gmail all on the same day, when I married my husband and it all came true exactly what he helped me and vision and so that’s the power of doing that visualization piece in mindset.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah Thank you so much for describing you know new times, where you’ve used this and I’m thinking just about the power of these beliefs and these thoughts about money. And there’s one thing that you said, I think a lot of people really have about this thought about money, you know, I have to work hard to make money and sometimes it can feel like you’re just like spinning because you’re working so hard and it’s a grind.
Jane Atkinson: All of those thoughts I have to work hard to make money I don’t know I don’t know how to get to that figure I’m confused about what I should be doing all of those are just thoughts. And so, if you really examine them it’s you, you can change it and decide to think something else I don’t know how to get to 1.7 million, but I’m going to figure it out yeah that could be my new thought.
Cindra Kamphoff: Right and so I’m thinking about the thought model and if it’s like Okay, the thought is I don’t know how to make that figure, the feeling is frustration.
Jane Atkinson: or like your feet before you even begin. Did right you’re already to it with that thought.
Cindra Kamphoff: And then the actions you don’t take much action because you’re not creative and you’re not thinking about what is possible for you to make that bigger that you’re thinking about and then results are you don’t make it.
Jane Atkinson: I think, for you like you’ve done this mindset work for a really long time, I think the juicy bit is right there in the action line. Because when you realize what feeling is driving the action so let’s say it’s defeat I don’t know how to do this I’m never going to get it done. You start taking all the actions and you’re doing all the things. But you’re coming from the place of defeat rather than if you started from a place of confidence and take all the actions all those same actions you’re actually like almost energetically putting it out into the world in a totally different place and that’s the piece that I think you know you have really done it well, and like recognizing that that’s exactly what you’ve done.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah, thank you for pointing that out, and I, I like what you’re saying is like going to the feeling what’s the feeling that you want to have so what feeling do you need to believe that you can make this this amount, whatever that is for you from.
Jane Atkinson: Confidence whatever it might be right.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah and then what’s the thought that’s going to lead to that feeling yeah awesome.
Jane Atkinson: Really figuring out, you know people need me now more than ever and coming from a feeling of confidence and then taking all the actions you know, in a company that’s been around for 18 years we take a lot of actions and we take them all consistently. So we’re already doing it kind of on autopilot. But if the feeling that’s driving the actions when I’m writing my latest blog post and I’m feeling despair, instead of confidence Houston we have a problem. Right, even if it’s not like a front and Center problem it’s an energetic problem there’s an issue somewhere out there in the region that we need to address.
Cindra Kamphoff: Yes, absolutely. You know this has been so powerful Jane.
Jane Atkinson: I love during this podcast. Would you say three times during this podcast I’ve never cried out if I guess.
Cindra Kamphoff: Well, that is powerful and what I love about, that is, you know I really appreciate your vulnerability and just sharing with us your inner thoughts I think when I hear that and I know it would everyone who’s listening is hearing it as well. You know, it just helps us connect with you, but also it’s like okay we’re not alone we have these thoughts too. And I am inspired by hearing how you continue to work on yourself. You have so many amazing ways that people can get involved with your work you have several books, the latest book is scaling your speaking business 10 strategies for earning more. While doing less, you also have a wealthy speaker school and a podcast you do coaching and masterminds that’s how I got involved in your work as I started listening to the podcast and like. I think I’m gonna like this first and Jane and then I heard you as a coach was in your mastermind for several years, so tell us how we can get involved in your world.
Jane Atkinson: Well, actually if there’s someone who’s just thinking about stepping into speaking the scaling book is a little bit further along that’s a more advanced book, but the wealthy speaker two point O is kind of a good starting position and then, if people come over to speaker launcher COM. They can see the latest podcast they can see our latest blog we just ran a contest for the best virtual speaking DEMO video, to be able to demonstrate what virtual speaking looks amazing, so we have a lot of freebies over there, that people can take advantage of.
Cindra Kamphoff: awesome Jane Thank you so much for your time I love that we work through the thought model and really talked a lot about mindset today and how we can level up our mindset, I know you know anybody who’s listening, even if they aren’t a speaker can get a lot of tech walk away from the podcast really learning a lot today. So thank you I’m grateful to spend time with you today.
Jane Atkinson: So fun for me.