4 Pro Tips from a Pro with Dr. Adam Naylor, Performance Psychology Division with Deloitte
Dr. Adam Naylor leads the Performance Psychology division of Integrated Mental Health Services for Deloitte and is a mental performance coach for Telos Sport Performance Consulting. He has spent over two decades serving as a mental performance consultant to high performance leaders and competitors – an expert in emotions and mindsets that allow people to thrive and connect well with teams.
His clients have stood on Olympic podiums, hoisted the Stanley Cup, competed in tennis’s Grand Slams, won NCAA championships, thrived in international soccer competition, led corporations large and small, and more. He has published and presented widely on topics ranging from self-regulation under stress to the social-environmental factors that shape performance through the psycho-social development of leaders.
In this interview, Adam and I discuss:
- 4 tips to operate under stress and thrive
- Why the mental game is tough to implement
- How acceptance allows you to perform confidently
Cindra Kamphoff: Welcome to the high performance mindset podcast I’m excited to ask Adam Naylor here to be on the podcast so thank you so much for joining us here, Adam I’m just honored that you would be here on the podcast with us.
Naylor, Adam: Since I’m honored for the invitation, and I know you a little bit it’s been terrific to dictionary since we’re gonna be a lot of fun, so thank you.
Cindra Kamphoff: it’s gonna be a lot of fun and I know you have some incredible tips and tools to share with people and so maybe let’s just get started and tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do right now.
Naylor, Adam: guys, so you know passion, what I do right now, you know those almost seemed like two questions so I’m trying to think, I want to do what I do right now that that’s feels like the name rank and serial number so let’s go for that. If one looks me up so my my major big hairy beast that I’ve taken on is I’m the leader of performance psychology for Deloitte the global consulting firm. I’ve been external resource that a leader for years as a handful of people know I’ve kept it on the down low this past summer Dr Deborah mystical who needs their mental health services, who I think is tremendous asked if I’d consider flipping inside and really expanding a performance psychology resource, because she saw it as being really important so it’s a huge challenge and I’m so excited with I do believe a unique thing we’re building. So we’re going to build that together so that that’s a pretty big part of my life sports has been a big piece of my brand so even when Deloitte said hey can we have you. They said no, no, no, keep your sports practice, so I also you know I leave tell us sports performance consulting I have some wonderful colleagues, on that I’ve had gosh well I’ve been in the space 25 plus years at this point, so I maintain that. But in all transparency, I very intentionally shrunk it I’m not a guy that’s good at saying no to people, so I must say I love seeing my athletes play on week nights and weekends and it feels like a blessing and yeah so that’s me right now.
Cindra Kamphoff: that’s a great starting point I you know I think 25 years of this experience and performance psychology is incredible and what an honor to be able to do really cutting edge work at in such a global consulting firm that really values mental health and performance psychology so when you think about you know being interested in performance psychology and sports psychology data, you know just from you how you grew up tell us a bit about a little bit about you know how you got to hear in your career.
Naylor, Adam: yeah you know to me that feels like a question I love to answer it’s a little bit of a geeky one I usually have kept down the down low one thing I will say my career has been very deliberate but not planned. Meaning I was like I need this job or I need that job I actually think that’s a in the field of sports psychology I think that’s a fool’s mission, because you will. Jobs will look shiny and you’re going to go that’s not the job I thought it was when you get it, and then some interesting stuff will show up so even just we mentioned Deloitte. I say this to folks at Deloitte never in a million years I plan on being part of the way is the right people the right fit and the right journey to get here and it’s been terrific but, if we go all the way back to the beginning, and I know I mentioned this to. To meet people go why in the world, sport performance psychology and I can break it down probably across a couple things growing up, so one I often say my father, he is a congregational Minister and I swear he did all of his counseling on a basketball court or baseball field. So I grew up knowing it’s important to care for others and be dramatic in other people’s lives. And I swear to you I would be sitting at my dining room table and my dad would come home from work and go hey guess, who I picked on this morning on the basketball court, it was all my friends at the high school. So I really learned, you know it’s not about the religious, but how do you connect and care for humans and that’s really. Great and he is a sports guy you know I know this past summer he was he’s retired, but he can’t keep out of the pulpit so he’s a pulpit. And he showed a basketball shoe just to let people know what she’s wearing because I don’t know I had probably had something to do with scripture he goes here’s my shoes you pulled out a high top of my that is so my dad all the blend so caring for others as important, but I wasn’t you know I go to church, but I wasn’t gonna be a minister. Then I share this one, to me, which is really interesting I think interesting when I was growing up, I wasn’t allowed to watch TV on school nights right that’s like a no screens rule, these days, for the rest of us right. Right, except if it was sports. And this wasn’t because I had a sports crazy family, you can talk to my mother, my father on this, they could care less how far I went in sports, but they thought there was some intrinsic inherent value to sports participation. Participation in watching right, it was the first reality TV so that to me was interesting. You know, sports was allowed to be watched not you know we go way back I don’t I will never guess, I will name is Byron my mom was like watching Dallas and knots landing and you know, is probably you know all those eight. Well, none of them, but it was sports, if you could put it on, and then I will say I had incredibly men mentors over the years, I went to Trinity College does my undergrad degree and it’s a liberal arts college there’s no sports psychology performance psychology Program day one said you do what you want, I had the best mentors in the world, there you know I taught my first undergraduate sports psychology classes senior there. I had supporting creating it the year before and I will tell you it’s the toughest class I ever taught tried teaching a class to 20 buddies you out with the night before like, if I could teach that bunch something I was going to be okay on policy, it was still on campus a phenomenal coach has been a mentor forever. You know he’s the winningest college sports coach in college sports history, he believed in psychology. And he and I have had this lifelong conversation heck he brought me in to work with his team for years ago most pressure over be under they’ve won the national championship, the year before I’m like all I can do is screw things up coach. My horrible job horrible joke is who we won the national championship again the next year Thank heavens I didn’t below that one right and I found out my value in life, we were 20 and Oh, I believe, in the year before, there were 19 in one So if you want to win one squash match apparently on your day. One when nothing else changed and honestly, they would have won it without me but, again, it was about the people and he called about the winning he called because he goes, I think the guys would benefit growth wise from someone like you right what a forward thinking code So those are how I got two great mentors family have believed and I guess you could say a role model and how to do it so.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah well that’s wonderful I can hear the psychology emphasis the sport emphasis and also like the intrinsic value of what you can learn from sport. And you know now when I think about I mean just the wide variety of people that you’ve worked with over the last 25 years and now being at Deloitte and it’s interesting is, you see. You know, companies like Deloitte hiring more performance psychology folks are people trained in psychology, why do you think that’s really important for firms to use, you know performance psychology to help support their employees.
Naylor, Adam: yeah I think I have a couple answers right, I think you might new I go this way is it is one I think, why is important, you might want to ask you know Deloitte or Dr Deborah mystical who thought, this is a bright idea to start, because I think they’re really forward thinking. Specifically, what we’re doing it, the light invite me back in two years, because I truly do believe we’re building it a little bit differently that’s been done. Because it is important, why are we trying to do it a little bit differently is. Because again another shout out to her she’s gonna be so embarrassed Dr mystical said there needs to be strong psychological roots to the work that’s done she’s a phenomenal clinician and I can tell you care all over the country for the people Deloitte that’s quite easy and she can find them and she called me, so I know how to find clinicians I think we need people that are grounded in psychology. That really understand operating under complex in stressful situations and that’s where someone with a sport or performance psychology specific background could benefit, and I do think the world’s only getting more complicated.
Cindra Kamphoff: Yes.
Naylor, Adam: And people choose to operate under stress, so we better have individuals that know how to support that around them. And that is a specialized skill set it takes a lot of ethics, it takes a lot of collaboration. Right so I’m always collaborating with my mental health team internally, it takes pros like you frankly that know hey, how do we do this in a great way so. To me, I think that’s businesses only game more complicated. And we it’s worth navigating the stresses effectively so that’s why I’d say why I think, of course, you know there’s been a lot of coaching and whatnot over the years I think there’s a next level ahead of us that we all should be putting our eyes on because I do think people deserve them from a human level and, yes, from a performance level, but I always put the human first human performance has human In it I care about the human before the performance frankly.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah yeah and what do you see as the next level tell us a little bit more what you’re referring to.
Naylor, Adam: Man, you know again yeah I’m gonna also avoid that one call me back in two years and I’m going to go hey here’s what we’ve built together, I think I alluded to some of it a truly collaborative relationship. With psychological roots right it’s not. I think we’ve taken the coaching industry is so broad that in sometimes it’s turned into advice given and we do know if we look at the science rights century you’re very well trained great advice, giving doesn’t actually move the needle.
Cindra Kamphoff: Only when people are ready for.
Naylor, Adam: folks that understand how to create readiness. Yeah folks that understand what is true growth and learning. And to me that’s where I think the space of performance psychology can go as it says do people understand these things are we doing them well are we connecting with humans right. It can’t be excessively programmatic but it’s not just the free for all, and I think finding that sweet spot of I always say I think really successful performance coaching has a reasonable plan, but it’s not rigid. Because humans experience many different things on the journey. And I think it’s an evidence based guardrails. Hey you know I think we operate, I often use I often use water ocean analogies because I don’t live too far from the beach, but if I walk down to the end of my street there’s some channel markers java’s say what’s the Channel we’re staying within and how do we help someone navigate it well it’s not a perfectly straight path. But we dance this dance, so I know it’s a kind of a broad answer you know I can go to specific things I tend to do, but I do think I maybe put a challenge out to the whole audience, how do we elevate it, so it is truly human centered and truly evidence based but that’s the goal yeah I think young people deserve that and I think it’s deceptively tough, especially in large organizations. Right, because it does mean everyone’s got to really collaborate well and there’s got to be a real spirit of trusting Karen which is tough.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah which is tough well I what I read I loved what you just said about the human and you know human performance is putting the human first I think that’s important as we kind of think about. Maybe the performers, that all of us work with or ourselves as performers now Adam I know that you shared some pro tips today with those at Deloitte and I’d actually like to start there and dive into some of these pro tips, because I think they could be really useful for everyone who’s listening so. Where do you want to get started?
Naylor, Adam: I can just kind of throw it out there, because you mentioned the word Deloitte that this is same thing I share with my athletes same thing I’ve probably shared over the years, I will say. You know I always fear it’s old wine and a new bottle but um to me when I call them pro tips we get hit by so much on the Internet and social media it’s tough to weed through. And tons of like, at this stage of my career if there’s four things I think everyone should learn more about or do that much better here’s where I’m going right reframing right we’ve all heard the term but, frankly, be able to grab perspective effectively hit the pause button. I actually will say I don’t know about you, I love to frame things you know I don’t do it, personally, I have some of the frames if it’s an important reminder my office and. Do you have to sit back and go well, does it need the fancy frame does it need the boring frame, sometimes we don’t say, can I view this and another manner. Right okay grab that perspective so learning more about reframing and double down doubling down on that is important, I think, sometimes we grab the kind of the POP site tips ago I need good self, talk like you need good reframing before yourself talk. Because reframing leads to optimism reframing leads to a perspective that allows us to connect reframing is a pause button that lets us get out of our way reframing if we know how to do it if we go maybe you know, maybe it’s not the way I see it, maybe there’s an option B, C D any right we got multiple frames and allows me to go through it and go, is this really a problem. Because I’ll be honest, if I go through my five or six frames I’m going yeah this is as horrible as I think, then, it gives me truth that I should chase it. But if I don’t slow down to reframe first I’m just running around like a chicken with my head cut off so reframing would be one, so you want me to pause there.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah let’s pause there, I think, well, first of all, I completely agree there was this was a while ago, but the first time I talked to reframing like to a team, I actually brought like a empty frame you know, there was the football. And I just was saying hey you know how you can use, you know, a different lens or different frame you know, to see the situation differently, and I think so many times we go just to our default which tends to be maybe. Specially when something is frustrating to us, you know we kind of go to these disempowering energy levels of frustration or guilt or why me kind of victim right. And there’s always a different way of viewing a situation that’s more empowering.
Naylor, Adam: And I think first I love that you took the frame, by the way. You know, it is a move I’ve been playing with more and more often right like there’s an element like symbolism that helps us remember things. Yes, again that’s actually why lately I’ve been talking almost kind of what you did go, what is the frame is it the one that belongs in the MFA is it the boring black one that’s in my house right, knowing that you can put them on and off I don’t know how many people if we will see the zoom but going that’s what reframing is let’s try it again so first I love that you did that, because I think the symbolism of the word frame can be used to help us grab this skill yeah you know, so I think that’s kind of my big note I think you’re spot on right when we hit that pause button lets us roll better The one thing that you were saying, I want to highlight I think sometimes people think reframing thinks. We mean need to be pollyanna positive yeah that’s actually there’s a term out there knows toxic positivity I’m not asking people to go from negative to positive. And you’re gonna get another mini career story, for me, I remember many years ago, I remember, I was overseeing a Center at Boston university, I was sitting in my office. It was a tennis player from Dartmouth came down to meet with me darkness importance Ivy league I remember sitting with her and she was just having incredible emotional dysregulation during a match and. There may have been tears and frustration and phenomenally skilled player and bright young woman and she looks at me she goes out. I know I shouldn’t be negative, but feels just so disingenuous to be positive, I was like disingenuous talk about going down Ivy league word and the word session right.
Cindra Kamphoff: Right.
Naylor, Adam: But when I heard it I knew exactly what she meant mind positivity we’re not going to grab onto so we actually talked about something in the middle craps and I’ve done this for the over the years, is there might be a better P word, we need to find what’s productive.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah right that.
Naylor, Adam: unicorns and rainbows on top of it go run with it. That leap from negative positive can be tough and it’s not always necessary.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah I completely agree Adam and I do think there is toxic positivity and I think reframing so many times we take things personally right or she did this or coach did this because of me but it’s like you know if we. If we see it from a different lens or a different frame what’s going on with the coach or what’s going on with him in her or him or her that might lead them to act this way right I’m was you were kind of thinking about these frames, I was thinking about a blue frame and I yellow framing it. Read frame and how we can put these different like glasses or frames on, and then we see the world in red or orange or blue um but that we can always choose to see the world differently with these different frames.
Naylor, Adam: So now I love that you see the glasses out here, and this this we’re not going to make this a full left turn, but I think we’re talking about the power of meaningful symbols right years ago I was thinking, I need glasses for people, and this is particularly for youth sports parents. Going hey. I want, I want the parents to see it through the kids eyes, so I always like I need the magic glasses because kids are tremendous and having this joyous approach. Like sometimes parents and coaches aren’t I’m like I wonder what lens they’re wearing and even sometimes the coaches are wearing a lens the parents don’t get and the kids so it’s like what we have these magic losses are like this is how someone else sees the world right we’ve got some sort of social psychology experiment here syndrome that we’ve got to do some days the magic glasses, to allow us to not do the fundamental attribution error right, so we understand people more.
Cindra Kamphoff: Of it I’m thinking about the next team session I’m just going to bring a whole bunch of different colored glasses.
Naylor, Adam: If you need any call my house. As I said, we’re water people we live near the beach they’re awake oh my God like we got sunglasses everywhere, if you need sunglasses I probably have about 50 off load on you, we can handle a whole football team probably.
Cindra Kamphoff: love it okay so first pro tip is reframe like crazy.
Naylor, Adam: Go old school reframe has been around for a long time we shouldn’t neglect the good ones second one, and this might be somewhat simple um. You know practice poise, but when I say, be able to have a few skills for practice employees I’m talking about physiological right and diaphragmatic breathing to me it’s as simple as just taking a breath. But this is something I think we forget, especially in the non sports spaces that were allowed to take a breath and sit back in our chair. And drop our shoulders between calls simply doing that puts us in a space where maybe we can have greater perspective. I think everyone in their toolbox should have one perspective thing and one physiological thing athlete or not I would actually even art, are you athletes sometimes don’t know why they’re using the physiological. The strength and conditioning coach said I need to work on my oxygen I’m like. You know, it also drops your Harvey let’s clear up your mind like oh you mean that really right like. This ability to, and I do a lot of work in hockey.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah well, they can be high right.
Naylor, Adam: And then let’s set up perfectly if we watch it, what happens if you’re a skater. You skate for 40 seconds have a discipline shift your heart rate better be going through the roof, and then you better sit on your butt for two minutes, and when you’re sitting on the but if you’re smart you’re gonna drop your shoulders even a brief you’re going to drop it hey if that’s, the key to long term performance dropping stress for a few moments right physical activity as a stress in the best athletes in the sport wouldn’t we be a fool not to use that in our everyday lives get up get down get up get up, we can even do that everyone talks about the multiple layers of stress at pandemic. We can’t take away the layers of stress, we really can’t right, unfortunately, but we can steal a few moments to breathe every now and then. And I’m not talking a dramatic yoga class and Plotkin let my again you hear me say because I try and do it, I let my back at the back of the Chair, you can probably hear if you listen close by cheers little squeaky. So, probably people hear me squeak and then exhale that’s it so then I’m a little bit of a micro recovery, so I think everyone should have one or two physiological skills that work for them.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah wonderful I, like everything that you’re saying Adam and I’m thinking about I think in the workplace, where we’re going from zoom call the zoom called zoom call the zoom fatigue like it can be really overwhelming. Or, I think the importance of like taking a breath, because people are really, and this is this the visual of dropping the shoulder as people are more stressed, I think, during this you know, last couple of years, during the pandemic than ever before.
Naylor, Adam: it’s fun I got to see him speak a couple years ago and I swear whenever I talk to them, I think I’m a better job of promoting other people in selling other people’s books, by the way, so. Dr Robert suppose ski I think I’m pronouncing his last name, right here, why zebras get ulcers and I speak actually a sports medicine conference up in the city and I was home, one of the two sports like people there, which was why I was all the strength coaches, one that they wanted to hear from him he put up this slide that. He said, take a look at this slide now you see the see now, you can identify when stress is happening, it just a picture of a chair. He told a story which will tell far better than is like the pollsters and a cardiac rehab office knew before the doctors, when someone was going to have a heart attack. And everyone’s like what the heck is this guy talking about if you looked at the Chair, who is worn out on the front edge and worn out in the front of the arm rests.
Cindra Kamphoff: Oh Nice.
Naylor, Adam: you’re on the edge of their seats you know. Like back there you go, we have to close on the edge of my seat so I’ve actually stolen a little bit for work or clients going notice where you’re sitting in your seat move your butt around the seat throughout your day. Or at the edge moment or with the back hit the back of the seat moment. And I stole it from him, but right when we’re on the edge, that means your shoulders are up. Again we don’t know this if we don’t monitor it again, as we talk symbolism stuff right, what do you an easy way Thank you could say once every three hours I’m going to do my but check we’re in the middle of the back button, the seat. Even better, am I out of the seat.
Cindra Kamphoff: Right yeah
Naylor, Adam: Right now, you can see, can you see like I got two chairs in my office I try and make sure I use them both. You know if I’m only using one I probably didn’t you know, I was probably honestly too darn excited about what I was doing and I forgot to give myself the break because it’s not just stress excitement can cause us to not pause yeah that’s why we need these physiological skills.
Cindra Kamphoff: I love it practice the pause or the poise through a physiological technique like breathing and then the first one is reframe like crazy. What’s the third one.
Naylor, Adam: um you know learn acceptance and I know there’s the term out there radical acceptance or whatnot but just understand what acceptance actually is um there’s so much talk of mindfulness these days mindfulness has been around forever, if we look close mindfulness is about settling ourselves non judgment and acceptance. But so often, we only get stuck in the physio of it. You know, and again I’m really that’s a gross summary of something that’s been around forever so let’s all dig deeper someone offline can talk to me about, but this idea of acceptance, you know it’s the how many people in our space no control that you can control yeah acceptances the second half of the sentence which no one says enough and accept what you cannot.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Naylor, Adam: Okay, actually a couple of years ago, you know it was probably a dry erase board and Jim I said I think at that time and Center where we have to pull it up, I probably took a photo three sports psychology principles that need upgrading and that was one of them. It was control what you can control, I said because we didn’t finish the sentence control what you can control if we don’t understand acceptance turns us into a control freak it makes us rigid you know worst performer control, you can control says be prepared, except what you cannot hope people are listening saying that does that make your shoulders drop per second. That moves the fluidity into it I’m going to take care of my stuff. And I’m going to let myself flow so I’ll add one other little piece on this is a tough one, because. It takes a while to wrap our minds around it’s not it sounds so simple but we got to think about because I’ve had athletes push back on me on this one and love that they do. If you take advice, without pushing back you got a problem because he didn’t reflect enough on it they’ll go you mean I’m supposed to like losing Adam. Low acceptance. And contentment are different, acceptance and contentment are different I don’t have to life, like the situation I’m in but as long as it’s reasonably healthy and safe right we want people to be safe and healthy I’m allowed to accept it. I’ll add one other little piece on this, because I think we need to it’s so critical to understand acceptance again I’m about to sell someone else’s book the fighters mind by Sam shared. Just did a really tremendous job of trying to elevate, elevate some ideas he’s a journalist, I think he elevated well, I remember so. You look me up on LinkedIn I’ve got a long career, so I worked in the UFC for five years, look at me I don’t belong there, I am not a violent human and I run from a fight but I’m proud to say I think my UFC record something like nine into never had to step in a cage and never fought. But, so I tried to make sure I was an expert in that space in Randy couture actually in this book tell something really interesting, which I feel like I’m giving away some of the secret sauce of success here, but I guess I’m at the do it. At the start of any fight camp. At least he said this. In a fight camp last about 10 weeks that’s when you prepare. You do your heavy training and then you do your weight cut and you get ready for that one event and the top of the world, probably only compete three times a year, so this is like a pretty big deal says, as we start the camp I sit around my team. So really high level MMA fight camp these days they have a team right, so I was, I was part of a team as me there’s a nutritionist the strength coach there’s a striking coach and you jitsu coach or wrestling coach is phenomenal right. I sit around my team, he said, we look around go, you know, on X date I could get knocked out. Someone would think that’s negative thinking. For that’s actually acceptance. And because guess what I believe in this now, I read it someone’s got to read the book and see if they like their interpretation I’ve done it with athletes, I feel like it’s been very successful. I acknowledge the elephant in the room, now I don’t have to worry about that for 10 weeks I can get down to training status gauge go about my business because I don’t have this boogeyman on my shoulder, oh no What if I get knocked out no yes. I’m competing at the highest level of sports.
Cindra Kamphoff: mm hmm.
Naylor, Adam: If you’re at the highest level, you actually don’t know the outcome of the game. If you can’t accept that you don’t know the outcome, you will fear the outcome, the whole game.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Naylor, Adam: you’re the outcome right how often you hear process versus outcome you’re going to spend your time working on, will I will I will I win rather than taking care of this play.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Naylor, Adam: I think everyone needs to believe they can win and be willing to accept that every now and then we get bruised hopefully it’s not too often that mindset is gold, yeah confidence it’s like I got this if I don’t get what I want I’m going to be all right now see you tomorrow.
Cindra Kamphoff: So powerful Adam I’m thinking about a couple of things like sometimes when athletes will say to me well, what if I lose or what if I perform poorly right it’s like well So what if you do it, you know let’s talk through that and then it’s like well okay I didn’t die and okay I’m probably going to the worst case scenario in my head right and I have a lot of future based thinking, instead of what’s, what can I do right now that I can control, which is, which is the process. I love I love what you said about you know that this the phrase control, you can control needs to be upgraded and accept what you can’t, how do you see let’s think about the world of business. How do you see acceptance play out in that world and what happens when people don’t accept.
Naylor, Adam: it’s actually funny you say that I think it’s deceptively similar right in general in the World Business whether it’s sales whether it’s. You know, trying to meet your numbers, you know did a lot of part of a startup the deal I’ll work with sales people handful years back, and what I say is. And this is again I want us to acknowledge the nuanced and difficulty of it is difficult to do tech, thank God, it is cinder are you and I would be unemployed okay. All right, thank God, the mental games I always say we have to work on our relationship with our numbers. Okay, meaning we’re always working on, yes, we want to hit our numbers and exceed our numbers. Whether you’re in corporate space or you’re an athlete. I will tell my clients early on some you get a sense of one of my sessions. I acknowledge, I say don’t get me wrong, I don’t want you to think I’m saying it’s okay to lose or not hit your numbers. Because the more you win the smarter I look. So I put that joke in the room, like I’m not some sort of fluffy winning doesn’t matter I much prefer a few when I much prefer if you land giant accounts, but I also know as a professional. If that sits in your mind and you fear that all day you’re actually lessening your potential well I guess what if I take care of my business odds are works out.
Cindra Kamphoff: Right.
Naylor, Adam: You can tell you, if I take care of my business odds are works out I win a lot and I get what I’m supposed to get yeah at second sentence scares people know that But what if I don’t know what sometimes you’re going to be Bruce. You going to take no one. Will figure it out like I actually even mentioned likes like this winning or losing if it’s like hey what’s the big deal if you lose I don’t want to say it’s a giant deal viewers, I will lock myself in a room and cry with my clients for two days, if they want go be sad go get your heart.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Naylor, Adam: But guess what that’s what it is, I think, acknowledging that I might take some bruises let’s go. A powerful you know. I again you got me pivoting back for because I think they’re deceptively related that’s why I’ve never sought out the corporate space. I Let it come to me and the corporate specific one what you’re saying seems to fit and I wasn’t sure it would. I tell you five or six years ago, I guess, I guess it fits better than I ever thought I never wanted to be the fluff I’m giving you a fluff in the corporate space and really where it translates in is this numbers thing quite a bit. Can I be brave enough to be willing to get my heartbroken sometimes right so I’m going back to the numbers, I have track athletes I’ve worked with over the years, like what if I don’t get a PR I go get a PR you have to be willing to get your heart broken. So what do you mean by that you gotta lay it all out there to try and know you might not get it. But if we’re not willing to get our hearts broken we rarely put our best performance out there. Were conservative, we are indecisive.
Cindra Kamphoff: mm hmm.
Naylor, Adam: I think we need to be make good decisions with reasonable bravery. So there’s a long answer your question, I actually think they’re quite related when we talk about acceptance going to trust myself acceptance is true trust.
Cindra Kamphoff: super good I think what you’re saying I love what you said about, we need to work on our relationships and numbers and I think sometimes the numbers for me as an entrepreneur. You can motivate me can keep me excited, but they also can, if I over focus on them or thinking about them, just like an athlete might do overthinking about the outcome, they can create so much trust stress and pressure where it’s like Okay, maybe I use that to keep me pumped and excited but I don’t define myself by those numbers or my identity by those numbers.
Naylor, Adam: Exactly I think you’re spot on the right, and I think even goes back to where do you think this is needed and I keep going, I think we need to keep elevating and refining our voice on these things because. When you say that I put I put this new onset and you speak to this as an entrepreneur and that the numbers are useful and motivating until they’re not. So we can’t just take the diet of numbers are motivated that’s old school science opera conditioning carrot and stick and there’s tons of science to go guess what that’s useful until it isn’t. And I think we have to be that reflected with ourselves, going with motivating thing like some people go. To give I love numbers I’m like I’m competitive and I love numbers sometimes and other times, I just want to do really cool stuff. For numbers don’t mean you’re competitive it just tells where your focus is sticking.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah good all right, this is great. So we got number one well reframe like crazy number to practice poise and number three learn acceptance what’s the fourth Adam.
Naylor, Adam: when in doubt reach out. Right, if you like, that right that it’s rhymes and everything when in doubt reach out, and I say this across the spectrum right um. We have to all be sensitive to we’re not all superior, sometimes we are struggling it’s the human condition. So when in doubt reach out to a trusted professional go Okay, I need help on this or I’m not sure what I need reach out or the line off and using the sport, space, I was asked this in the corporate space back in the fall, someone said to me so Adam will you tell my team. What is the biggest thing you’ve learned from elite athletes over the years. Okay, and you know right like they’re gonna wait for some sort of bullet point list of like. Be gritty or this that and the other thing, and this has been my experience, and I will say it is a it’s people willing to work with me so that’s why I tend to learn from but I’ve tried to be a good observer, the very best in the world use their resources. That was the answer I gave, and there I like I’ve worked with wonderful folks some folks that REACH have reached out to me that said, you know, in the corporate space and in the not they’ve said I don’t know what I’m going to work on with you, but if I’m being offered to you I’d be a fool not to take it. Use your resources, the best I feel like the best sometimes don’t even know why they’re using them they’re like let me learn how I could use you. So to me that’s the when in doubt reach out because sometimes the reach out is I need extra care, sometimes, as I need a friend yeah it. Could you give me a good book Adam. When in doubt reach out none of us are mental game does not happen in a silo recommit were parts of connected community, so I could preach on that forever because that’s at my heart I’m a social psychologist. But if you asked me Adam if you weren’t in this performance space well you’d be on like I’d be somehow locked in an academic room somewhere doing social psychology research just that ship sailed probably 20 years ago in my life.
Cindra Kamphoff: Well, I love these four tips together pro tips, because I think they’re so powerful when their practice and I think about this Adam I think like. That common sense isn’t always common practice and sure acceptance might be common sense reframing might be common sense but. It takes a lot of work to practice what we’re talking about and just like what you said about the mental game is tough because we’re humans and we tend to get in our own way even somebody who knows a lot about the mental game, I can easily get in my own way, you know.
Naylor, Adam: 100% I am you know and who knows what my family’s say like I’m learning every day, you know there’s a clinical psychologist that I consult with he helps me out with some clients it’s funny he said he called me a day goes out I did my mindfulness meditation this morning I’m like Okay, he goes, and I still stink at it, but I’ll do it again. Like this is this great old school guy that reminds me or Carl Rogers he’s like I do mindfulness meditation I stink at it. Like what honesty and humanity like to me that’s someone that gets it, but like I’m not gonna get it right, but I’m going to keep showing up and try and um I guess the cute line I use often is the mental game is simple, but not easy.
Cindra Kamphoff: yeah.
Naylor, Adam: When we look on linked in or Twitter, it looks easy right. Yes, true just do these five things oh it’s a lifetime’s worth of work. But it’s good. it’s fun work if we don’t do it with rigidity.
Cindra Kamphoff: Adam Thank you so much for sharing those four tips, I think that you and I could talk forever I’m like Oh, this time went really fast, what else would you say that you wanted to kind of share with the audience today here on the high performance mindset.
Naylor, Adam: syndrome some simple in some ways they that was it, I really enjoyed that we do like I encourage people when it comes to high performance mindset to challenge yourself to try and learn some of the nuances in could consult with the pros that want to work with you and collaborate with you be collaborative in this space. To me that’s the most fun right like I get to collaborate with you like that makes my day as a professional I get to collaborate with some of the people I mentioned, so you know dig into some of the nuance and be collaborative with just cool people you know in kind people.
Cindra Kamphoff: I’m giving you some snaps over here that’s my positive energy. As I kind of summarize today, so we talked about for pro tips reframe like crazy practice poise with a physiological technique or strategy learn acceptance so control, you can control but accept what you can not be. We talked about when in doubt reach out I love what you said about the mental game is tough and mental the mental game is simple, but not easy kind of this idea of common sense isn’t always common practice right but being deliberate with training your mind is obviously a key to all of us reaching our potential and stepping into our best every day.
Naylor, Adam: Thanks so much.
Cindra Kamphoff: Thank you, Adam. If people learn more about what you do if people want to reach out how might they do that.
Naylor, Adam: I was gonna say that probably the simplest ways to reach out in this crazy world for like find me on LinkedIn. I’m there, I think the profile looks reasonably professional, but I think you went through it to me it feels like I’ve been a job collector for 25 years but feel free to connect with me on that one from the other, and then you know I don’t know if it’s still cooler anymore on Twitter I’m at Ahnaylor. I always say, if you want to follow someone that’s going to post boring stuff that I’m your guy I was trying to make sure it’s somewhat elevated and sometimes I read redo art send out articles on like this, is that next level nuance check it out, or just even say hi on Twitter. I think it can be a good space when we use it well, so.
Cindra Kamphoff: I do too well, Adam Thank you so much for coming on the podcast dropping some value bombs. And really things that can help us just live our best life and step into our potential and be high performer so thank you, Adam I’m grateful for you and being on the podcast today.
Naylor, Adam: Thank you Cindra thanks you in that list, and I really appreciate you listening frankly.